Is a state-sanctioned church is a true church at all? Government interference in faith matters has taken a more insidious turn in China, as the CCP swaps religious eradication for religious control.  Amidst news of Hong Kong Cardinal Joseph Zen's court trial, Andrew Urquhart caught up with public theologian Dr Craig Heilmann about the dilemma facing Pope Leo and the repression of Catholic leaders in China since the late Pope Francis' 2018 agreement on the appointment of Chinese bishops.